Stupid lawsuit of the week

[reason]

Originally posted by Jumper69:
Reason,

You seem to be advocating that it is business's responsibility to educate, advise, and inform potential consumers about every potential safety issue that may or may not come into play during the course of ownership.

I, on the other hand, think that the responsibility lies with the consumer to research and educate themselves as to exactly what they are buying. It it MY responsibility to know what my vehicle can and cannot do and, as it applies to this debate, where the blind spots are on my vehicle.

I appreciate you playing devils advocate but all of your protestations to the contrary, this tradegy was an accident and well within the control of the parents to avoid. That you are so condensending to other posters attitudes who espouse personal responsibility is bullshit.

My $.02

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Excuse me, Jumper, but what Oldie and some others are promoting as "personal responsibility" is nothing more than cold hearted, thoughtless bullshit. These parents I've shown are no different than Oldie, gae, trav, or you.

Condescending? Lessee, the attorney tells me Pintos explode something like 1 out of a 100 million. Wrong. No - grossly wrong. Oldie, gae and others don't know how the product is marketed, but that doesn't stop them from telling me I'm wrong. They know what the parents were told, even though they have absolutely no clue whatsoever what they were told. At least I've tried to have an inkling. And no one on here knows the specifics of the accident mentioned in the article, but that hasn't stopped you and others from essentially calling the parents dumbasses. At least I've tried to demonstrate that perfectly good, intelligent parents have experience the exact same thing on what appears to be a relatively consistent basis.

Condescending? I'm the only one on here who has shown any valid evidence, yet pretty much all I've gotten from anyone here is some judgmental - really cold hearted - bullshit - from shallow interpretations from a brief article.

I'd rather be condescending than cold hearted and shallow, thank you very much.

And you have absolutely NO evidence to suggest that this accident was something the parents had control to avoid. None whatsover. You have provoided no argument whatsover to prove the parents did. But that doesn't stop you from somehow believing you do.

You don't. You don't have the information.

Maybe it would behoove you to stop focusing on my attitude and more on the lack of facts - and what facts you know - and maybe I'll change my tune.

Because right now - from trav, to gae, to Lew, to Oldie, to you - I'm getting jack. No, I'm getting less than jack - I'm getting bullshit.

<font color="#a52a2a" size="1">[ December 13, 2004 10:33 AM: Message edited by: reason ]</font>

[reason]

You seem to be advocating that it is business's responsibility to educate, advise, and inform potential consumers about every potential safety issue that may or may not come into play during the course of ownership.

I, on the other hand, think that the responsibility lies with the consumer to research and educate themselves as to exactly what they are buying. It it MY responsibility to know what my vehicle can and cannot do and, as it applies to this debate, where the blind spots are on my vehicle.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Funny thing about car manufacturers. They are experts on cars. I'm sure the consumer will check first to make sure the wheels won't fall off their Dodge Durango - and of course it's their responsibility to do so - not the car manufacturer.

A car manufacturer will be among the first to know about potential problems with a design - even before the consumer. So when they find out about a potential flaw that results in deaths, then it's their obligation to fix the problem and not assume that every single consumer is going to understand every single problem when they purchase a vehicle.

What you are proposing is so dangerous. You would have fit well with the Ford team during the design of the Pinto.

[jumper69]

What facts would you like me to present on the parents behalf reason? I can't prove a negative. I can prove that this was an ACCIDENT. If ya wanna boil it right down, it's really nobodies fault.

However this comment...

And you have absolutely NO evidence to suggest that this accident was something the parents had control to avoid. None whatsover

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You show me evidence that the parents did not have the control to avoid this and maybe I'll buy into your argument. Until then it's he said/she said.

You say it's the automanufacturers fault, I say it's the parents.

[jumper69]

These parents I've shown are no different than Oldie, gae, trav, or you.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">and ALL of them have managed to NOT run over their kids with their vehicles.

[reason]

I started out with a devils advocate mentality, but ultimately what got me started was the brevity of the article and the strong opinions posted against the parents by the initial posters.

I read the article and couldn't help but think there are so many unanswered questions.

As I've been doing my "research" there are still unanswered questions. But I know enough to believe there could be a very fixable problem that isn't being fixed.

Funny thing is, I haven't even begun to address some other widely known stats about SUV's and the disproportionate numbers of deaths involving accidents with these vehicles...

More to come.

[reason]

Originally posted by Jumper69:
What facts would you like me to present on the parents behalf reason? I can't prove a negative. I can prove that this was an ACCIDENT. If ya wanna boil it right down, it's really nobodies fault.

However this comment...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And you have absolutely NO evidence to suggest that this accident was something the parents had control to avoid. None whatsover

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You show me evidence that the parents did not have the control to avoid this and maybe I'll buy into your argument. Until then it's he said/she said.

You say it's the automanufacturers fault, I say it's the parents.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, you haven't been following my argument.

What I've been saying is that this isn't clear cut, and there could very well be liability on behalf of the manufacturer.

What I haven't done is condemn the parents on incomplete information like you have.

You don't know.

[reason]

Originally posted by Jumper69:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> These parents I've shown are no different than Oldie, gae, trav, or you.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">and ALL of them have managed to NOT run over their kids with their vehicles.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As I commented before, Oldie, gae, trav and you are perfect, which gives you license to condemn others based on incomplete information.

[reason]

You show me evidence that the parents did not have the control to avoid this and maybe I'll buy into your argument. Until then it's he said/she said.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have provided evidence that this may be a persistent problem that is just now being noticed. I have provided evidence that this may be something that happens fairly commonly to perfectly good parents. Maybe not as good as the perfect parents who inhabit this board - but good parents.

I have posted articles addressing the lack of data collection by the government and that the information needs to be addressed.

What I have said is that there may be good cause to believe the auto manufacturers are liable, and I think this issue needs to be addressed further.

[jumper69]

I'm not condemning anyone other than to say the parents, in my opinion, didn't exercise due diligence

Whether there is any culpability on Infiniti's behalf will, I'm sure, be worked out in the multi trillion dollar lawsuit sure to be filed by the grieving parents.

[jumper69]

I have provided evidence that this may be a persistent problem that is just now being noticed. I have provided evidence that this may be something that happens fairly commonly to perfectly good parents. Maybe not as good as the perfect parents who inhabit this board - but good parents.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What are the stats reason? Of the number of Infiniti SUV's on the road owned by parents with children, how many have backed over their kids?

10? 25? 100? I don't have the time to research Infiniti SUV sales but I would have to say the number is in the hundreds of thousands if not millions.

So even if 100 kids were killed by being backed over, the ratio of deaths to # of vehilces makes it an accident.